Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show host or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Bama Balance. I'm Johnny Foster.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: I'm Nick smith.
[00:00:47] Speaker D: And I'm Dr. Tony Perun.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: And today's episode is definitely going to be a lot heavier than our.
Our past episodes focusing around grief and how men deal with grief. Starting out this semester with the unfortunate loss of Kareem in New Orleans, we felt that it was necessary to talk about grief, talk about loss and the many stages of loss, what loss looks like to different men on campus.
And to be honest with you, weird. It's not a comfortable conversation to have. Even Among Us 3 is very close and very, you know, emotionally somewhat strong men. It's. It's a very hard conversation to have and one that.
That we think is necessary but at the same time is very, very hard to talk about.
[00:01:41] Speaker D: Yeah, we don't. We don't. I don't think men like to talk about, at least openly, grief and loss. And certainly it's difficult to express those feelings, I think, but particularly this semester, it's been a difficult one. This spring semester, we've lost a number of students, unfortunately, who died. And I know those circles of their friends and groups and organizations have had a hard time and struggle with.
With their loss.
But this semester in particular has been pretty heavy for those deaths and those losses.
[00:02:26] Speaker C: Yeah, truly, it has definitely taken effect on Alabama and its community.
But like Johnny was saying, this is difficult, but we want to do this to kind of serve as a resource and kind of a sense of, you know, these feelings that you might be feeling if you're grieving, like, my grieve in the future, like, these feelings are normal.
And, you know, that's kind of the testament to our show of, you know, normalizing these difficult feelings and talking through them.
But, yeah, it's. It's hard.
I feel, like, pretty open talking about mental health, but, you know, kind of reiterating what everybody's saying. Death is the one that really gets me, and I'm pretty sheltered in and largely because I'm pretty scared of it, you know, so I think that's it.
[00:03:23] Speaker D: Right? It's. It's, you know, talking about death and talking about the loss of someone close to you is. It's a hard truth to come to grips with because of the meaning that that person has had in your life or our lives. And as men, how do we talk about those feelings when sometimes it's difficult to talk about other feelings?
And at the same time, part of. I think our intention is not just to.
To talk through what it means to grieve, but how do we talk about it? How do we, you know, how do we help other men kind of learn how to talk about grief and loss?
And also taking this time to certainly honor those who've died this semester and certainly last fall semester, you know, realizing again that our last episode was all about honors week and those achievements, I think it's only fitting that we take this time to honor those who we've lost in our community the last year and certainly this semester, most currently.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Right?
This university's makeup is made up by everybody. And so whenever we lose somebody that has shared the same sidewalks with us, it definitely hits us in a very soft spot, and it's difficult to talk about, but something that's a part of life, unfortunately, with age and with time, those that we love could, you know, fall out of our life, whether it is with death or just maybe an emotional death. We don't talk to them, lose. Lose sight of them. And so we'll kind of get into all the ins and outs of personal experiences with that. And we're not experts by any means, but we're here to help guide any listeners to feel safe and experiencing loss.
And so we hope that you continue to listen to the rest of the Bama Balance. We'll see you in the next segment.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling, and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:06:43] Speaker C: Everybody, welcome back to the Bama Balance. Over the break, we have kind of been mapping out a little bit on how to go about talking about this. It's a sensitive subject and, you know, has multiple layers to it. So we first wanted to start off by opening up the floor to how men talk about grief and how that looks for people experiencing grief and how to support others.
So, Dr. Perez, do you have any outlook on that?
[00:07:18] Speaker D: Yeah, you know, I think it's difficult. It is difficult to talk about grief. It's difficult for men to talk about grief. In particular, it puts us in a place of vulnerability and emotionality that a lot of men feel uncomfortable with.
I think, as we've talked about before, for college men, part of it is this, I don't want to say facade, but maybe this feeling of needing to be strong, kind of carrying up a strong appearance when really that strength of being a man is allowing yourself to be true to your feelings and being true, particularly during times of grief, to your sense of loss and your sense of sadness during that time.
[00:08:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Something that you just said made me think on the flip side of it. Right. So feeling like you need to be strong in that situation and is something that I've personally gone through and like, felt and also been on the receiving end. I've never once, like, thought to meet or have been met with, like, thinking that somebody's weak for their grief.
[00:08:47] Speaker D: Right.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Like, we were talking a little bit over the break, Dr. Perez and I were chatting about it, and he said that, like, if I brought this to, to him, it would be all about, like, how can I help you? How can I, like, serve you to, like, make you feel better? Right. And that's 100%, like, every time I've been around this, like, that's been my initial reaction. It's like, if you want to go get food or, like, want me to bring you something, or like, you need somebody to clean your room, like, that's like, that's the thing that I'm going to do in this situation. But I've also felt on the flip side, like, oh, somebody's gonna judge me, or like, not that people are gonna, like, get on to me for, like, feeling that way, but it's more so, like, I don't want to present myself as, like, this emotional, like, broken down person when something really hard is impacting my community.
[00:09:47] Speaker D: Right, right.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: You feel bad for struggling with it, especially for a long time. I've had family friends of mine who have talked about, the first few weeks are really hard. But you're also.
Everybody also knows that you're constantly being asked if you're okay and given gifts or something, or told amazing stories. But from what I've heard, the hardest times are after that, when it's specific moments that you didn't realize, reminded you of a certain person, but it feels like you're past the point where you can grieve.
And I think that kind of self guilt a lot of times is what holds people back from really, really experiencing it the way that it needs to be. I think as men, that's really hard to be vulnerable with yourself, especially in certain situations where you're seen as the leader or the person that should be always emotionally strong. That's really hard.
I know for certain occasions, like certain people come to mind whenever I hear, you know, whenever I see a certain commercial, like, oh, this guy. I can only imagine how that would be if they were no longer here. That's something that's going to be reoccurring throughout your life and you don't want to be that person that's like always, you know, the Debbie Downer.
That's the way that I would think, right. When in, when in reality I would much rather someone be really upfront with me, like, hey, I'm really struggling with this today, that even though this happened years ago, months ago, weeks ago, I'm still struggling with it today.
I need somebody to talk to that's more brave than battling it yourself.
[00:11:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that kind of a little bit of what you're hitting on is, you know, these norms or like these norms that you're placing on yourself of not being able to take care of yourself because of like, outside pressure to. Or like what you expect outside pressure to be, telling you to react in a certain way.
But the way that I think about it, right. And I had a recent conversation with a very close friend that, that lost somebody about, you know, the appropriate reaction to it.
Not feeling like he should, I guess, overdo how he felt like he was grieving, right. And didn't want to like, take the time, I guess, to, to experience that because he felt like that that wasn't appropriate. Right.
And I think that this idea is kind of like if your mind is telling you, like you're grieving, like to recognize that. Right. And take the time. It's kind of like when you're hungry, right. And your stomach grumbles, right. Like you, your body's telling you to go eat, right. Like the same way that you're feeling sad or anxious or whatever it might may be that's associated with this loss, like that's to be addressed and the societal norms that you might be concerned about. And I, I sincerely don't believe that to like be the societal norm, but like all of us feel that way during loss. Yeah, I That's not something that should really be weighing in on your off or on your. How you proceed.
[00:13:30] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because grief can be experienced in different ways, right. Different degrees of grief by everyone based on, you know, if it's. If it's. If it's grief around death of a friend or family. Well, friend, mainly, that. That depending on how close you are to that person in some way dictates that level of grief. Right. So the closer I am to somebody, I'm going to have deeper and maybe more intense feelings of grief and sadness and loss than if I'm six or eight degrees of separation from that person.
And I think that, you know, to honor that, to honor the nature and closeness of that connection and the grief that results from that is important.
[00:14:17] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
That's what's really difficult, I think, about, you know, like, balancing, you know, like, you're feeling this grief. Right. And you also want to recognize that other people are feeling grief.
I think that the way that I've most appreciated when I've been grieving close to somebody, like, I've lost a very close friend in high school, and the way that I felt most supported was, like, the community feeling. So, like, being there with people and, like, feeling loved by the people around me.
And over the break, I was trying to, like, figure out how to say that. And, like, really, I think that's what it is, is like showing that we're all here, you know, and not necessarily making about who feels the worst about it.
[00:15:14] Speaker D: Right, right.
[00:15:15] Speaker C: Because I think that people, when they're feeling these. These feelings, like, every feeling about it is valid. You know, like, some people may be upset, some people may be angry, and that's okay. And, like, we shouldn't point fingers or, like, observe too hard on how this person's dealing with that. Obviously be there to support them. But really, like, I think that the love for each other is what. What needs to be prioritized in these moments.
[00:15:46] Speaker D: I think the language of grief for men is also difficult. How do we express, you know, to others, to other men? How do men express to other men how they feel during moments of grief? Like, how do we express our feelings to other men during moments of grief? And I know that, you know, for me, it's been a difficult thing as well.
I think that, you know, the most. One of the most recent times, at least, most impactful one certainly was the death of my best friend. This was maybe now some 20 years ago, but it feels like yesterday.
And he was somebody that I grew up with.
We were Both the oldest in our family, so we were like brothers and we got a lot. So we've. We've known. We've known each other for, I think, since elementary school, up through college, up through our professional careers.
And so his death struck me hard. Harder than other friends or family that passed, but struck me hard because of the nature of cancer. And, you know, cancer is nasty thing, and certainly no fault of his own in terms of acquiring it or being diagnosed with it. But I think, you know, I remember being with a group of friends who, again, we grew up with each other in elementary school, and we. We struggled to find the language of grief.
We didn't talk about. And I remember this clearly, we didn't talk about how sad we felt, but we went through our memories, you know, oh, remember this time? I remember having a great time.
Michael's his name. Having a great time with Michael during this event. Remember when we did this? There's this kind of recollection of memories which I think is all good, but underlying that is, you know, what are the feelings that underlie that? And I think it's in those times when certainly we had a hard time identifying what the sadness was until I think I said I feel sad. And that just brought it to a different level because it is a sadness. It is a loss, and someone you love deeply and someone who, you know is no longer in your presence, that's. That. That loss is felt very deeply.
[00:18:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I think. I think I want to, you know, dedicate the time for the next segment to. To kind of unpack that a little bit more because I think that, you know, finding the words to describe or, like, I don't. When I have felt grief, it's been like, just a whirlwind of, like, intense emotion. And I think in retrospect, having lived with it for, you know, three years in one case and five in another, like, I think I know what I'm feeling or, like, know what I felt.
So y'all stay tuned. We'll kind of unpack that a little bit more in segment two. This is the BAMA Balance.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show host or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 3483. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 91 1, or go to your nearest emergency room.
[00:20:12] Speaker D: Welcome back, everybody, to Bama Balance.
We've been talking about grief. It's admittedly a hard topic to talk about. And sharing some of our experiences with grief and losses, you know, has been also particularly, I think, a delicate one and maybe challenging one for us because we don't openly talk about losses or grief openly.
And certainly within our circle of friends, maybe it's still a challenge to talk about grief, to talk about the sadness that comes with that. I think for men, it's not only being vulnerable in that place, but also finding the words to put to our experience. How do we find the language of grief? What does that look like for men or what does it look like? What does that language of grief look like when you are in the company of friends or family members who are experiencing grief and sadness? What is it that.
What is language that. That comes from that for you Situations?
[00:21:34] Speaker C: I think so. I'll answer the family one first.
I think empathy for that, having had experience it, and like, feeling a sense of kind of hurt for them. Like, you know, when my girlfriend's upset or my mom's upset or whoever is upset, then I'm like, sad that they're upset. Right, right. And if I'm not, like, personally, you know, have a relationship with this person that's passed, then I feel that way for the people that. That do. But I think it's trickier for the instances where it's somebody that you're close to.
Because in my situations, like, I felt multiple different feelings. Right. So, like, you know, when my grandfather passed away, when I was little, I was just really sad.
I also didn't have, like, the development to like, really understand what that that meant other than I wasn't gonna see like my grandfather again, which is just sad. Right. And then when I've lost friends, it's been kind of coupled with, or, sorry, like, anxiety coupled with anger and like this. This grief feeling. But in the instances where, like, hearing about it or like living in that moment, it's like, really hard to process what that feeling is. So for me, I was just like, it's like right back my neck got hot, like, hand clenched up type thing where it's like, I don't know what this is, but it's a lot to me.
But the answers that I'm giving you are like, coming from reflection of, like, feeling this, like, sorrow and like the hollowness that that's associated with, like, the loss.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: I think the language of grief, it could kind of be like a, like A, like a Rosetta Stone almost, where it's different things, completely different languages, but all feel the same thing. All are, you know, the Rosetta Stone is three languages or however many but say the exact same thing. And in this case it's people reacting to grief in completely different ways but achieving the same inner peace that hopefully they're all seeking to achieve.
And I think that is important for people to understand where and for, you know, yourself to understand. How do I, how should, how not, how should, how do I deal with grief? What, what will give me the most, you know, inner peace?
Is it reminiscing on, you know, past things that you would do with this person? Is it, you know, you know, various other ways in which you can grieve? Is it being like Nick said, is it being with a group of people?
And that's, that's important for you to understand, but you really don't get it. You don't know how you grieve until you have to. It's a game time thing and it's an unfortunate kind of discovery that you have to make about yourself that you hope you never have to make. But inevitably, more than, more times than not, you have to.
[00:25:02] Speaker D: We will come across those experiences later, hopefully, but sometimes some of come across it sooner than later. And finding that language is important, I think, to be able to maintain that connection, right, to maintain those relationships. I think the fact that we're kind of taking this on is challenging in and of itself. How do we find this language to talk about our experiences?
[00:25:28] Speaker C: I think I want to add to this conversation like when one of my friends passed away and I found out, like I was with two of my best friends and we had all three, like we, our reactions materialized in different ways. Like they, we just all looked different hearing the news. And that's to say that like feelings and your reaction to grief kind of like what Johnny's saying, like there's not a normal or a right, right way like that, that grief is going to look differently or look different in, in other people. So like if you're experiencing loss, right, or are witnessing the experience of loss, like don't feel like you're wrong for feeling a certain way.
Like the way that you handle that might be beneficial to you or not so much. But like that initial feeling that you're not, like, like I said earlier, like you're feeling about it is valid.
[00:26:34] Speaker D: That's right. Yeah, that's right. Well, I wonder too. So for, for those, for those times when the loss isn't directly personal but might be someone else's loss. Like, have you. Have you been in a situation when you've seen, like, other men cry? And what's been your reaction to that?
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, for me, one of the first times I saw my dad cry was at his dad's funeral. And I think that he thinks of his dad the same way that I think about him as his. My role model and someone that I attribute a lot of the ways in which I think about life or the way in which I've conducted my life thus far. And I think that piece of. I think seeing that was really, I think, one of the few times in my life where I was. I really understood the severity of something. And that, you know, it's.
It wasn't like a, you know, whatever, I'll move past it. It's. It's just a small blip. It was a huge, huge thing. And that was like, really the first time in my life that I had also experienced lost loss, very close loss, losing my grandfather.
And it had. It had been coming. He had Parkinson's, and so it was inevitable. But still, I think losing that. That piece of you seeing that. And like, in high school, I was given an award for a classmate. Not a classmate, but someone who was, I think, three or four years older than me, who had tragically passed away while still in school. And granted, I didn't know him that well, but I was given this award in his honor. And upon being given the award, I was then approached by a lot of people that were really close to him and said that I embodied these same aspects of him. And that was incredible.
It's really hard to put into words how I don't want to. I'm really struggling to find the words. I mean, it really was incredible to feel that. That I could be, you know, live up to someone else's life, because every person's life is so special.
And I think experiencing other people's loss and trying to cope with them in that is hard, incredibly hard, because you don't know how they feel. You weren't as close with this person. But at the same time, if you have experienced loss, like you said, you can empathize and you can try to be with them in that scenario and help them express their own specific language of grief. How do they grieve and help them navigate that tricky kind of route?
[00:29:24] Speaker D: Do you remember how old you were when your grandfather died?
[00:29:27] Speaker B: Yeah, it was my. It was my senior year of high school or fresh senior of high school.
[00:29:35] Speaker D: So five, almost four or five Years ago.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Four or five years ago.
Yeah, it was.
He had bad part. He played. He played football back before helmets were really. Oh, gosh, he was a beast. So he actually got to stay for recruiting visit. Stayed at Paul Bear Bryant's house.
[00:29:55] Speaker D: No kidding.
[00:29:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And so he would. He was. He was running back with Kenny Stabler at Foley High School.
[00:30:03] Speaker D: Oh, wow.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: And held the touchdown record at Foley High School until Julio came in.
So I think that's a good person to break it. But he was such a good athlete. Even better person. And. No. Yeah, that was. So his mother was my great grandmother. She was alive for forever. She was, like, the most healthy person ever, and so she died shortly before him. But I was a little young to really experience that.
But Daddy O. My grandfather passing was kind of the first time that I really experienced that, and so that was tough. And so I empathize with anybody who loses grandparents, and that's typically the first one you hear. Right.
And that's not to say that it's too common to feel bad and to not experience that grief and feel justified in feeling that, but because it's a part of life, and with age comes hard times.
[00:31:09] Speaker D: Right. So what did it mean for you to witness your dad's open expression of grief, to see him cry?
[00:31:18] Speaker B: I don't know. It was.
It was really. I mean, I'd been.
I think it was. Again, I'm struggling to kind of put it into words, but it really was such an.
It kind of humanized him as. As someone that literally is my role model, as, I think, the absolute world of him. It was really humanizing to see that, wow, he struggles because, I mean, I think of him. I used. I still do, you know, as like Superman. Like, is he. Nothing really phases him. He's always gonna do what's best. He doesn't struggle with anything. That humanized him for me. And to see that he felt the same struggles that any human feels when you have a close loss like that, it's incredible to see that someone that, you know, you thought you knew everything about can have experiences that are human, that really can bring them back down to earth.
[00:32:22] Speaker D: What did it mean for you, Nick?
[00:32:24] Speaker C: Well, I was young when my grandfather passed away, and I. I witnessed that from my father. But when my friends were. Were.
Sorry, that was the question you asked me. But when me and my friends were experiencing that, it's not. Relief isn't the right word, but there was a sense of, like, okay, I can. I can express myself. Like, I can feel this as well, you know, and it wasn't like we were all waiting on one person, but it was like we all, you know, simultaneous, simultaneously reacted to the news. And if I wasn't with them, like, when I. When I heard that, I think that it would have been a lot harder for me to let myself, like, react how I was feeling, you know, So I obviously would never wish my friends to, like, have those feelings and, like, you know, have to react that way as a response to them. But the community of it was comforting in the way that I could get out my feelings organically.
[00:33:41] Speaker D: Yeah. That language of grief really feels to me as if it belongs with the people in some way, the people most affected. Right. And that whatever words are a part of that, the language is still the same. I care about you.
I feel sad. I feel a sense of loss. I feel I'm hurting because, you know, this person close to me has passed, has died, and there's this void.
I hurt for you because you've lost this amazing person in your life. And.
And I care for you, and how can I best care for you during this time? Right. So I think that language of that language of grief is. Is almost like it's so tied into how do men express themselves to other men. Right. And how in those closest. In those most close relationships, how is that language expressed? And I think putting ourselves in that place of vulnerability allows that language to come naturally, as awkward as it might be, you know, like some. That during today, in some way as difficult or as awkward as it can be.
I think putting yourself in a place that's vulnerable and genuine just allows the language to come naturally.
[00:35:11] Speaker C: Right.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: Even if you can't find the language.
[00:35:13] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Express that.
[00:35:15] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: Because everybody has to go through it or goes through it for the first time. And nobody's an expert.
[00:35:22] Speaker D: Right.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Nobody is.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: And, yeah, I wish I. I was an expert when I felt. Felt these feelings, but, you know, um.
[00:35:32] Speaker D: You're an expert in you.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:34] Speaker C: Right, right. And, like, I don't know, I am fortunate enough to have a community that is understanding around me, you know, and, like, understanding that sometimes I don't understand that's what I'm feeling. Right?
[00:35:48] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:35:49] Speaker C: I think that a lot about this language that we're kind of talking about is hard to explain naturally because you don't, like, immediately know what it is.
[00:36:01] Speaker D: And again, I think for me, you know, moments like this make me very grateful that we're engaged in these discussions and in these conversations that allow us to be open with each Other and hopefully sharing our openness with our listeners as well.
We've got a wrap up here in a few minutes and we'll be back for our last segment and. But this is the Bama Balance. We'll be right back.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: This show is not a substitute for professional counseling and no relationship is created between the show hosts or guests and any listener. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, we encourage you to contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Bama Balance. I wanted to first thank the listeners for making it this far. This is a difficult topic and for some that are listening, maybe it's, you know, a relatively, you know, what's the word?
Relevant topic. So we really do appreciate you for making it this far into the episode. And I know, Dr. Perez, you asked Nick and I what our experiences were like, but what was it like for you whenever you lost to the death of your family?
[00:37:56] Speaker D: You know, that was. So Michael was my best friend growing up, and we had a lot in common and we had a lot that was different, and I think that's what made us best friends. But his death, because it was. Because it was due to cancer. I don't know if I said that earlier, but he died from cancer and died very young. So he died. Michael's death, he would have. I guess he was 39. So he was very young and left behind wife and two small kids at the time.
But for me, his death was transformative in that it led me to a lot of questioning, a lot of.
I mean, I was sort of in a place of anger for a while, you know, trying to understand Michael's death.
And quite honestly, it left me in a place of kind of spiritual questioning.
But it was transformative in that it allowed me to regain a lot of what I felt I lost in terms of sort of spirituality and faith. But it was a process.
And I don't know that I needed Michael's death to get me there. I just don't know. That's the thing. But that's how it affected me. I think that and having experienced, unfortunately, a number of other friends and family who had died previous to Michael, his was probably the most impactful, I think.
But it also gave me a better language of how to talk about Grief and death and loss better than.
Better than I had previously. It was. Certainly, it's difficult still to talk about grief and loss, but I. It feels like I have, like, better language for me and certainly a more open approach to it.
[00:40:14] Speaker B: I think it's important to understand that, like, everybody that you come in contact with has these experiences and these stories that have kind of been, like you said, transformative and shaped their entire lives, even though it's through these incredibly difficult times.
And for anybody that's experiencing something like this or has, for me, it's been most important to really seek friends, family, seek those support groups or resources. I know on campus we have numerous resources that generally want the best for each UA student.
And I think. Sorry, Nick is gone. I forgot to mention that at the beginning of the. I forgot to mention that in the beginning of the segment. So I know that. I know that he would. He would want to leave with a few words, but I'm the sound tech for the rest of the episode.
[00:41:08] Speaker D: Yeah, Nick had to bolt. We. We were running over. He had some other obligations he had to get to.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: But to wrap up. I think being emotional as a man is hard.
[00:41:19] Speaker C: It.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: It's hard to find a group of people that you feel comfortable with. And once you do, that really is freeing from what I found and something that I recommend in the highest regard to everybody, every man out there.
But it is hard. You're faced with societal norms of feeling guilty for having grief, for feeling like there's an expiration date on your grief, and numerous other grievances or abilities that don't allow you to grieve or seek out the right grief.
But the language of grief is different for everybody. And as you said, you've gone through your life. You've tried to build that in the best way that you can.
[00:42:11] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's that. I think it's that experience of grief that maybe in some way hits at the heart of what it means to be a man.
[00:42:20] Speaker B: Right.
[00:42:21] Speaker D: Because it puts you in a state of vulnerability and which is difficult for men. It's difficult for men to be vulnerable, to be expressive in their vulnerability.
And I think that.
Which is why so many men outwardly express their grief as anger or as something other than sadness and loss and hurt.
And yet at the same time, to be able to find that language of grief and share it with those closest family and friends that you trust and that you know can support you and aren't going to see you any less than who you are is important.
And, you know, Particularly, again, we let off this episode with this has been a very difficult year and semester that it is important to find and to rely on and trust those friends and family members to support you and maybe even help you find your own language through that.
Certainly, we have a number of resources on campus Counseling center that can help anyone through that journey of finding their language through grief.
And I think it's.
It's important to not only own your grief, but realize that your journey through grief doesn't necessarily end it's, you know, your grief, I think, at least for me anyway, is something that I've carried with me.
I don't forget it, but it's something I carry with me. And it's also developed into this sense of how do I now honor the memory of those who gone before me? How do I honor Michael's death? As much in the same way as how do you honor your grandfather's memory? So I love that story that you told about his time here at Alamshaw. You know, it's a great story. And how do you then, you know, how does your dad honor that? How do you honor your dad and his honoring of his father, your grandfather? I think that's important. I think that's, you know, it can be a way that men can process their grief is knowing that they don't necessarily have to be in a state of, you know, appearing strong. But how do you share now those memories and your remembrances and your love for that person in your own language and in your own way?
[00:45:01] Speaker B: That's a difficult path to take, but for a lot of people, it's a necessary one that they have to.
And we hope that this podcast, throughout all of our episodes, that you can take tidbits of knowledge or not from any of our experiences as we. As you know, the title of this podcast, it's Real Stories about College Men's Mental Health. Nick and I do not have it figured out, nor does Dr. Perez. I don't think any of us ever will. That's right. But Dr. Perez certainly has a lot more experience than us and everything.
[00:45:34] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:45:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:35] Speaker D: I think it's a cumulative experience about kind of life's journey. And you never have that figured out. Totally. It's still a journey.
[00:45:42] Speaker B: Yeah. If you had it figured out, life would be boring.
It really would. But again, we appreciate you going through this journey throughout the semester with us, throughout this episode specifically. And we're thinking about you. And this has been the Bama Balance, Real stories about college men's mental health. I'm Johnny Foster.
[00:46:01] Speaker D: And I'm Dr. Tony Perez and we're.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: Thinking about Nick Smith.
[00:46:06] Speaker D: Nick Smith, Yes.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: He wishes you all the best. We'll see you in the next one.
[00:46:31] Speaker A: This show was not intended as a substitute for professional counseling. Further, the views, opinions and conclusions expressed by the show hosts or their guests are their own and not necessarily those of the University of Alabama, its officers or trustees. Any views, opinions or conclusions shared on the show do not create a relationship between the host or any guest and any listener, and such a relationship should never be inferred. If you feel you are in need of professional mental health and are a UA student, please contact the UA Counseling center at 348-3863. If you are not a UA student, please contact your respective counties crisis service hotline or their local mental health agency or insurance company. If it is an emergency situation, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
